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Aristo-Craft
Trains Internet Depot |
B: A hobby shop I remember, Nat, in lower Manhattan was Trymo.
N: Trymo, yes. They were more of a model airplane shop though they had some trains. The name was Mo something or other, I forget his name. But there was such a place. They would say if you can't find it anywhere else Try-Mo, that's how that name came about.
There was a store across the street from 200 Fifth Ave. (The Toy Center) on 23rd, they had two floors. He was a Gilbert distributor. Did you know him Bruce?
B: Very well. I knew them for over thirty years. Their name was Savoy Merchandise. Tell us about Savoy. What was their tie-in with Gilbert ?
N: I don't know. The only tie-in they had was with the salesmen in the Gilbert Hall of Science. They would send the customers over there and they would take care of the salesmen, which was fair enough.
B: If you brought something into the Hall of Science for repair, occasionally they would tell you to take it upstairs where they had a repair shop. But more often than not they would send you two blocks downtown to Savoy. And the interesting thing was when Savoy got to know you they would sell you trains at a 30% discount. Of course, the Hall of Science sold only at list.
N: Well, they were kind of peddling merchants. They would sell to small independent stores. They didn't have what you today call the Sunday flea markets, but there were all kinds of small discounters around before- the large discount stores opened. Many businesses big and small, banks, utilities, etc. had clubs for social events and for discount purchasing. The club gave members a card and a list of discount stores.
B: My first job was at Chase National Bank and they had such a club. Some of the discount stores reminded me of a speakeasy. You knocked on the door and showed your card.
N: Right.
B: Going back to the Hall of Science. What was the reason for Gilbert opening it in 1941?
N: The Hall of Science was strictly number one in the toy trade. It gave Gilbert a very visible New York location for the trade, and it also gave them a public showroom, so that the public could come and see what they had, and this was some sales tool.
B: It was a neat spot and a great location.
N: Yes, it was a heck of a location. It was a sales tool, people do that in larger industries. Chrysler had a showroom in the Chrysler Building on 42nd Street, but in our industry nobody had such a showroom.
B: Lionel had their showroom on 26th St., but it was on the second floor and not as visible to the public.
N: I had a big problem with Lionel. I would call Lionel up and ask the girl where can I buy Lionel trains and immediately they would say Madison Hardware. Well, I would raise all kinds of heck. I felt they should name at least three or four locations. Finally we made our point and the girl would name several locations, not just the one.
B: Was there some kind of a connection between Lionel and Madison?
N: Well, yes, they had connections with the people on 26th Street and the minute Lionel would discontinue an item someone at Lionel would pack up all the remaining inventory and send it to Madison. They were doing Lionel a favor. They didn't have to pay for disposing of the material.
B: They were smart.
N: Listen, if they had given it to me I would have taken it. The price was right. I would have taken it. I would have come in and swept the floor for them.
Nevertheless, we didn't know about it. We didn't know what was happening until much later. We only knew that they were the only ones that had parts.
B: They had enough money that they were able to store things and not worry about it.
N: In the end they were not getting any younger and they did very well with Richard Kughn buying them out and moving the whole concept of the store to Detroit.
B: Someone you probably didn't know, for he had trains in the back of a store on 23rd St. was Julius Simon of Julie's Trains.
N: I did know him. Nice enough fellow. Yes, he had his own little following. If you take a look at the years we are talking about, the sales of Gilbert and Lionel were sliding down and HO was coming up fast. That was when Louis Hertz worked for me as my advertising man. He was a collector and at that time all we were doing was trading in Lionel Standard gauge for HO. People were downsizing because they had no room. So all the trains we took in trade we sent up to Louis and I filled three stories of his house from basement to attic. Hertz, at present, is supposed to be doing a history of our company.
B: I used to go out to a shop on Sunrise Highway on Long Island called the House of Mulraney, and they did the same thing you did. Kids would come in with a bunch of Lionel O gauge and trade it in for HO.
N: That was the way. People were moving into apartments not houses. The guys that came back from the war, they got jobs, they got married, and they moved right into apartments. Rents were reasonable enough at that time.
B: I remember in the early sixties that you were selling used trains. When did Polk's start selling used trains.
N: When I realized Louis Hertz's house was full and people were starting to come in and look for old trains. That's when we began to hold on to it, put prices on it and then we would sell it.
B: When the Girl's set bombed, it wouldn't have been a bad idea to put them away.
N: You sure could have, but who thought---it was a disgusting item, it was ridiculous.
B: Where do you see our hobby going in the future?
N: Well, the collecting is going to become greater and greater. It will become greater because people understand value. You see, I subscribe to all the collector's magazines, nothing to do with trains. In fact, I just saw Oprah Winfrey holding up an item she was going to have on her program the next day. Do you know what that item was? Would you believe that it looked like a piece of Junk, but it was worth $25,000. Hang on to what you have and look it over carefully.
In other words, this is what's happening. Our fellow members still think they are going to find a little old lady with a bunch of trains in the attic. Those days are disappearing. The collecting thing generally is going to grow and grow. More and more people are holding on to their trains and they're not moving or trading. They're holding on to their collections. The only time you get some really old quality stuff is when someone dies and the estate sells his trains. The collecting thing is going to go on and on.
The local hobby shop can't pay the Main Street rents, but they can sell it to you on the third floor or from the basement because we still have the rugged individual who would rather own his own business. Rather than work for someone else, he'll work for less for himself. He doesn't mind. In other words, a good hobbyist will walk up three flights of stairs to get what he wants. All you have to do is have what he wants and you have a business. You haven't got a business that will pay Main Street rents, but you have a business that can make a living for you. You can support a family on it if you don't want to live the fancy life.
B: Nat, I was worried we couldn't talk for 15 minutes. We've been going and going and going, enough for six installments.
N: Yes, listen we could talk for hours more.
B: Nat, God bless you. We will be back again to talk some more.
N: My regards to all the boys and the girls!
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